User talk:Hythloday1
Hi, welcome to Mass Effect Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User talk:Lancer1289 page. Be sure to check out our Style Guide and Community Guidelines to help you get started, and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Lancer1289 (Talk) 23:16, December 30, 2010 Edit Warring Since you stated that you already added them one, you are now in edit war territory, which is a bannable offense. You were given plenty of reasons why it isn't valid content, and yet you insist on readding the unnecessary information that also violates the Manual of Style. I will ask you to stop this behavior before further actions must be taken. Lancer1289 23:45, December 30, 2010 (UTC) :Get off your high horse. Hythloday1 23:49, December 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Excuse me, now you have just violated further Guidelines by doing that. We have guidelines for langauge here and I suggest you read them before commenting further. That was not only uncalled for, but insulting and rude. Lancer1289 23:56, December 30, 2010 (UTC) :::You've been insulting and rude all day. Engage the arguments I'm making instead of trying to cut me off at the knees. Hythloday1 23:57, December 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::I've been insulting and rude? Point to one instance where I've been rude or insulting as you claim. I have been nothing but civil to you since you started here. Also when was a change to the Manual of Style discussed, because I can't remember that conversation. Just because you post something on a talk page, does not give you the right to modify something, especially our Manual of Style, twenty minutes later. We always allow for discussion and 20 minutes seems like hardly enough time to discuss anything, especially something an admin is opposed to. If want people to engage in discussion, then you need to allow time for it, and twenty minutes seems like hardly enough time for anything. We always discuss first, then implement if necessary and I still have to say that I'm opposed to it. So that currently makes it 1-1 and a tie can be broken by an admin, so no change as of right now. I also say that it might be 2-1 with Commdor saying no as well. So what is the reason you changed our Manual of Style when there is currently a vote against it? Lancer1289 00:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::"Be Bold". You've been curt at best. I made a helpful change, your reaction has been petty and knee-jerk. I've yet to hear an actual reason why my changes are negative. Hythloday1 00:24, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::First this isn't Wikipedia, nor would we want to be part of that. Just getting that out of the way. While we also do encourage editors to do new things, you did change something, something that would beyond a doubt require discussion, with no discussion what so ever. We do require discussion on these types of things and you proceeded to modify official policy with no discussion. ::::::As to the reason, I actually gave reasons and I'll list a few more. Needless repeat of information: Shops are put into their own categories and in the planet categories where they are located. Name: I have a problem with Notable Locations as that can be hard to enforce, as "Notable ___" has proven to be a pain in the past. Locations: I don't see a need for notable locations, and I can think of other places that are much more notable than the shops on the planets/stations. Inconsistencies: This would create a massive inconsistency between planet articles and would only apply to a handful of planets, less than the fingers on my hand actually. Unnecessary: Goes along with everything else. I don't see why it is necessary on just a handful of places. Others: Since I know this might come up I'll put this out there. Just because someone else is doing it doesn’t mean that we have to. Each wiki is independent and can make their own policies and do with their wiki what they will. What works somewhere doesn’t instantly mean that it would work elsewhere, or that it even could. ::::::Finally, I ask you to point specifically to where I have been rude or insulting, and you change your story to curt and fail to provide an example. I have been nothing but civil and took care in explaining things. So I will again ask for an example of where I have been rude or insulting or curt as you now claim. Lancer1289 00:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Put your reasons for not wanting shops listed on worlds on the Manual of Style talk page, where it belongs as others will see them, and I'll respond. I'm discontinuing the personal conversation; if you can't already see why you're being a jerk then nothing I say will convince you. Hythloday1 00:44, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::You just can't stop with the insults can you. You have now just directly called me a jerk which further violates our guidelines, this case insulting other users, that I asked you to read and adhere by. No one is an exception to those rules and I will ask you to abide by them in the future. Lancer1289 00:54, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I told you the personal conversation is over. If you're actually an admin I suggest you let it go and behave professionally, starting with an engagement in the proper location regarding the Manual of Style. Hythloday1 00:56, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::And you do realize that if someone breaks policy then as an admin I have to address it and notify them as such. You broke policy twice, modification with no discussion, as is called for, and insulting other users. You end the discussion and then proceed to insult me in the same comment, so I have to address that. ::::::As to my behavior, I am not the one who acted against the guidelines we ahve for here with regards to discussions and language. I am more than capable of letting a conversation go, but if policy is broken, then expect me to address it. Lancer1289 01:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::There is still no response on the Manual of Style page, and it's been an hour and 20 minutes. I suggest you resign as an admin, since you seem to have a problem letting personal animosity distract you from fulfilling your duties. Hythloday1 01:22, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::And you talk about me being rude. There was absolutely no reason to say what you did and it was completely uncalled for. You do realize that I might be tending to other things, or maybe that I have other things to do as well? So far you have been flat out rude to me since you came here. You seem to take offense that your priority is not my top priority since you have failed to consider that I might have to do other things as well? You have consistently talk about me being rude, and you failed to provide and example, yet you yourself have been insulting, rude, and condescending from the time you started editing. I am perfectly capable of letting something go, but when you proceed to insult me, do you expect me not to respond? I am the one who has been civil, yet you continue to be rude and insulting. Lancer1289 01:31, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Two hours and counting ... Hythloday1 01:41, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::You have your response, but you must realize that I perhaps had other things to do and maybe perhaps I can't be everywhere at once. You seemed to take offence to the fact that I was attending to other matters, rather than focusing only on you and your request. Things take time, and just to point out that sometimes it takes hours or even days for something to get a response, or maybe it gets none at all. I would appreciate if you would stop with your rude attitude as it does not invite a welcoming climate. Lancer1289 01:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::And yet somehow you found the time to write 414 words, since I informed you that I was dropping the personal stuff and requested that you address yourself to the Manual of Style discussion, to defend your pride on a stranger's talk page. Again, I suggest, with all due respect and with the utmost sincerity and warmth, that this position does not fit your disposition. Hythloday1 ::::::And in that comment you proceeded to break our guidelines further by insulting me and you expect me not to address that? Then you continue to be rude, insulting, and condescending despite the fact all I was doing was addressing your actions, which weren't positive. There were also other things I was attending to, which were both on and off the computer. Frankly you seem to be continually insulted because I didn't give my full and undivided attention to something that was only one thing on a list of things that I had to do. Despite what you may think, I can't be everywhere at once, and just because I don't get to something immediately, doesn't mean I won't get around to it. I had a list of things I had to do, and just because yours wasn't at the top of the list the second it came to my attention, you seem to take offense to that. If someone was vandalizing the wiki, would you rather I answer your comment, or deal with the vandal? I'd deal with the vandal first, then get back to what I was doing. So again, just because I don't get around to something immediately doesn’t mean that I won't. Lancer1289 02:26, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::To continue my positive and helpful concerns with your mental health, I will note that you have committed another 206 words to this very low priority issue, namely an inexplicable grudge you've taken with five non-vulgar words I posted on my own talk page in reaction to your high-handed demeanor. In answer to your question, yes, I do expect you to not address a silly personal issue after I've asked you to drop it and move on to something productive. Furthermore, again in my deep and generous charity of spirit in regards to your attitude, I will note that all of these posts you've made on my talk page took up time you could have been dealing with these on- and off-computer issues. It's illogical, and symptomatic of a troubling and inexplicable hostility, that you would prioritize this talk page over other things, then complain about lack of time to fulfill your supposed site duties. I repeat my cheerful and supportive suggestion to resign from a position as admin for which you're clearly not dispositionally suited. Hythloday1 02:35, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::So you continue to be rude to and insult me despite the fact that I asked you to stop. You do realize that there were some cases where there were 10 minutes in-between posts, so what do you honestly thing I did with my time. Nothing?!Just sit at my computer and wait for your response?! That was not the case. I just happened to check in from time to time, saw you responded, and I answered, then went back to work. Your perception of what I seem to do with my time is off by a long shot. I am capable of multitasking, despite what you believe, and one of those said computer problems required me to sit at the computer. So I did, monitored the wiki, and still did something else. I am not complaining about the lack of time, I don't know where you got that idea, but I merely stated that you seem to take offense to the fact that I didn't not respond to your pressing need instantly. ::::::You keep saying that I need to resign based on your three hour interaction with this wiki. You to fail to realize that I've been doing this for six months and you have been here for all of three hours. Since when is three hours enough time to judge how someone manages their time or how they are suited to a position? It isn't! You seem very quick to make accusations that have no basis in fact. In addition, your position seems to be biased because of your interactions with me, and my telling you of what our guidelines are. Is it so hard to ask you to follow the rules or is that an unreasonable request? You seem to be under the mistaken belief that I have this top priority, well I did not. ::::::You seem to also be quick to jump to conclusions, about people despite the fact you have only interacted with them for a mere three hours. You can't possibly know everything about me based on three hours of interaction, which is what you are basing your claims on so don't say anything different. Frankly you haven't been nice to me by insulting m and being rude, yet that is all I know about you. Is that enough to base a judgment, no and I wouldn’t because I've been only interacting with you for three hours. Not enough time by any stretch of the word to base a sound judgment. ::::::You seem to be operating on some extremely flawed perceptions of how I handle myself, and yet you can only base that off of three hours of interaction. You don't know, and by any stretch know everything about me, so you have no grounds to say that I am not suited for a position that I worked for. Would you base judgments on your boss or your teacher/professor based on three hours on whether or not they are competent? Lancer1289 03:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::That was 496 words. And yet I have the last one. Surely a well disposed admin could handle that. Hythloday1 03:11, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Just to say it again... I am more than willing to discuss expanding the Merchants Guide if you are willing to talk about it. I do have a few ideas about the content and what we can cover in the article. If you are willing to discuss it, then I'm am more than willing, and will happily discuss expansion of that guide. What you did was change the purpose of the guide, without discussion, and the content it covered. An significant change like that would require discussion as it again changes the purpose of it. Again if you are willing to talk about it, then I'll be more than willing, and happy to discuss changing it and adding content. Lancer1289 09:24, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :That's nice, but I don't care. Really, I could not care less about the formatting of the Merchants page, whether it's combined for both games or split in two, or what. I only added that because I thought (silly me) it would please you by allowing me to create shorter links on the planet pages. Hythloday1 09:29, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::So you are completely unwilling to discuss expanding an article, for the better, but you would rather create a completely redundant article? that really just doesn't make much sense. You just aren't making much sense anymore. I am more than willing to discuss expanding a page that could be redesigned to meet the needs of Mass Effect 2, and where some information could be very useful. Yet, you think that creating a redundant page would make me willing to put links on a page in which I have already said I don't support, that just doesn't make any sense. If you are willing to calm down a little and be willing to discuss change of the Merchants Guide, then I'll be happy to discuss it with you and the community at large. Lancer1289 09:38, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::It makes perfect sense. A list external to the planet pages needs to exist for my compromise to work. You weren't happy with my edits to the Merchants Guide, for reasons I don't understand and don't have the energy to collaborate with you on to fix. Furthermore I seriously don't care at all what formatting is chosen for the ME2 shop locations on that page, as long as they're there. So as a stopgap I created a new page. I don't see what the problem is, it's not like it's wasting paper or something. Hythloday1 09:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::Ok so you want change, yet you aren't willing to discuss it? I'm sorry that doesn't make any sense. You do realize that if you aren't willing to work on expanding the Merchants Guide, then your new page will be deleted in a week and all of this will be for nothing. You are the one who brought it up, so why bring it up in the first place if you aren't willing to work out what goes there. You want change, so you have to be willing to talk about and discuss it. Lancer1289 09:56, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::What have I been doing for the past 12 hours but discussing it? Look, I don't know how to be clearer. Whatever you want on that page, go ahead and do. I preemptively agree to every change you make, with one caveat: that it has the ME2 shop locations organized by planet somewhere on it. What needs to be discussed further? I don't want to act as your sounding board, I don't care if the page is perfect, I don't need to be involved in a grand artistic project with you. Make whatever improvements you see fit, and quit throwing around threats of deleting whatever I do. Hythloday1 10:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC) I'm copying my last response to the Talk:Shops in Mass Effect 2 page. Stop posting here about it. Hythloday1 10:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Misunderstanding? I believe, from your last comment on Tullis' userpage, that there may exist some misunderstanding between us. You claim that I took offense because you "didn't immediately snap to attention at my command". This is where I think the misunderstanding occurred. I didn't "command" you to do anything. You asked for my input, and I suggested a course of action you could take. When you failed to state whether you would or would not act on this suggestion, and rather posited that it was in error (stating that the matter didn't seem suitable for the venue I suggested), I did perhaps grow a bit miffed, feeling that I had been blown off, but again made clear that I was merely suggesting courses of action, as evidenced by the use of phrases such as "I suggested" and "I would strongly advise". No commands, or demands, or anything of the sort. I hope that this clears things up a bit, as I'd like to avoid any further unpleasantness. As for allegations of my being a "poor admin", all I can say is, I do my best. It's always my goal to foster open discussion and compromise. I try to do the best with the situations I am presented with, and make no claims beyond that. SpartHawg948 05:34, January 4, 2011 (UTC) :Listen, I'm sure it was a misunderstanding. As I said in my clarification, all I was doing in response to what you phrased as a "quick question" about what I had done up to that point was to explain why I had done it. My best guess is you thought you were being clear about standard operating procedure around here while I was questioning it (which I was) and rejecting it (which I wasn't). You said you hadn't read the thread. You were not, in fact, very clear that you were recommending the appropriate course of action in this specific case, since you said you hadn't reviewed it. If you recall, my appeal on that page wasn't about getting my way on the substantive issue, it was about taking a closer look at Lancer's behavior as serially abusive. When I listed the whys of my actions to date, it was to clarify the context of my interactions with Lancer. :That's not how you interpreted it. You took my response, intended to lighten things up ("relax" is usually meant sincerely that way), as a challenge to your authority. Even if I leave aside how ... priggish that reaction seems, it's fairly clear that it was never intended to give offense. Your determination to be offended is what continued to baffle me. I was initially off-put by Lancer's heavy-handed obstinance; that you seemed to share that same sense of thin-skinned entitlement set off my snark-cannons. :I know I tend to antagonize people (at least, when they treat me in a certain way), and I'll take this as a lesson to give people more of the benefit of the doubt. So consider this an apology for any ruffled feathers. Hythloday1 05:51, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Welcome Hythloday1, in spite of any unpleasantness with your introduction to the community, I'd like to say welcome, and thanks for starting off by trying to provide original and useful information. A centralized source of the ME2 merchants will ultimately improve the site. -- AnotherRho 21:09, January 4, 2011 (UTC)